Curse

allience · Feb 20, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

i'm reluctant about nerfs.. everytime something got nerfed, something else became 'overpowered'. but to get on topic:

IWAY-i think this skill should only affect party members.

distorsion-it might drain more energy per hit and i'm not happy about it.

spiteful spirit-who even suggested that nerf? i find it pretty useless anyways.. it's a good skill vs iway but other than that, ANY build with hex removers gets rid of it fast. i see no valid point to nerf that. as a monk, the only hex that really disables me is migrane or good e-surgers.

gale: i think changing this skill in any way will render it pretty useless.

orders: i see no valid point to nerf the orders skills to closer range.

crippling shot: i don't find it overpowered but i donno it might be in gvg.

hopefully the skill balance will not turn out to be another bad move as it happened when iway got buffed. the only nerf i liked was the ranger spirits. now that was a good move, hoh was starting to be like a staring contest...

i'm not happy how things are in heros ascent at the moment. it's always the same builds, same tactics: iway/[insert profession here] spike/balanced/degen...

i took a look at all the different skills that ppl never use because they are not good. i think many skills need a buff instead of always nerfing the existent ones. anet said gw is all about the different skill combos, bullshit. there are only a distinc few usefull skills in each profession. more than half skills are rubbish, they MIGHT have a use in pve in only 1 or 2 areas... i'm hoping to see a buff in all the skills no1 uses, i wanna see a change coz i'm sick of always clicking the same damn skills.

icemonkey · Feb 20, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

i hate to break it to you but for the rest of the game hoh will always be either a spike/balanced/pressure/degen build.........you have to do damage to kill the other team and those are the tactics to do damage. theres no such thing as a "stance" build or whatever cuz stances dont really do damage.

Also for orders theres no reason to nerf other than make the range SLIGHTLY smaller. To change it to in the area is nonsense that would make the skill go from usefull to never ever ever used again. You dont want yer necro to spend energy and life on a skill you have to be on the front lines for that only lasts 5 seconds. But being able to use is basically anywhere on the map and it affects everyone is abused

dual shot? wtf go home theres nothing wrong with this skill stop crying about losing to ranger spike

gale? yeah its real affective whats the problem? Yeah with three gale warriors you can do a knockdown chain but thats the point when one player being on the ground for 6-9 seconds means the game in the GWWC thats not a broken skill thats a close hard fought game that came down to a razors edge of advantage.

crip shot should be tied to a skill but hey it is an elite it should be great

blackout is slightly abused as being a skill not a spell but its not broken

anyways i vote for more buffs than nerfs. Too many skills are worthless vs the skills that are effective in many situations. The idea here is versatility, thats why these skills are good they are effective in many situations unlike stupid skills like oh i dunno point blank shot, ignorance, heal area, AND MANY MORE

Lady Lozza · Feb 20, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Here are my predictions:

Orders will work I'm guessing, on party members in the mini-map area. At the moment there isn't (as far as I can tell) a range limit on it. I can't see them "nerfing" it more than that because it will render the skills useless. Also with the running around done in pvp to avoid attacks etc, I would hate to have the responsibility of programming it to work for all "nearby" allies only. Can you imagine the flickering of the enchant as the necro comes in and out of range???

IWAY will work only on team members.

SS I'm imagining might get a longer recharge time.

Crippling Shot will gain a longer recharge and become linked, somehow, with its attribute.

I can't see them nerfing PS because any nerf will make it completely useless. I also can't seem them nerfing EP as it has already been through one nerf already - though they might, might increase the recharge time.

konohamaru heaven · Feb 20, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Here are my predictions:

Orders will work I'm guessing, on party members in the mini-map area. At the moment there isn't (as far as I can tell) a range limit on it. I can't see them "nerfing" it more than that because it will render the skills useless. Also with the running around done in pvp to avoid attacks etc, I would hate to have the responsibility of programming it to work for all "nearby" allies only. Can you imagine the flickering of the enchant as the necro comes in and out of range???

IWAY will work only on team members.

SS I'm imagining might get a longer recharge time.

Crippling Shot will gain a longer recharge and become linked, somehow, with its attribute.

I can't see them nerfing PS because any nerf will make it completely useless. I also can't seem them nerfing EP as it has already been through one nerf already - though they might, might increase the recharge time.

Orders are the size of the compass.

Mysterial · Feb 20, 2006, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Changing the energy cost to 10 is pretty meaningless as the skills exhaust out 10 on every cast. If they do cast it at a 5e situation, then they are energy locked for awhile and cant do other things like frenzy or sprint for instance. To fix gale, its fail mechanic really needs to be linked to energy storage. It takes it out of the hands of everyone but elementalist primaries. Otherwise you are making alot of halfmeasures that do not really affect the professions that are able to abuse it.

You aren't understanding how it's being used. The reason it's overpowered on warriors is because they max out their exhaustion on it, and a) they can cast it again every 15 seconds due to exhaustion capping on 0 and Gale only requiring 5 energy, and b) if they actually need to use an energy skill, they switch to an air focus, use it, then switch back (which is why they run 9 air magic). Increasing the cost to 10 energy breaks that tactic, because they'll be forced to wait the full 30 seconds between uses.

Quote:

Its because warrior damage is strong and having alot of sources is hard to stop. Combine that with a limitless time boost due to dead allies and you have a broken skill. It is a gimmic and it can be overcome, but most other "broken" skills could be beaten alot easier than iway. The old style ether renewal was one of them. The skill isnt so bad in very small formats, like 4v4, but when you talk about faction battles being between larger scale alliances, this skill will have to get nipped in the bud. Probably what will happen with this skill is that the time frame will become variable based on attribute level instead of number of dead allies.

Your point is valid about warriors in general, but has little to do with IWAY. They could get the attack speed boost from other skills if they had to and they get as much health regen from Order of the Vampire as they do from IWAY. Nerfing Resurrection Signet is far more important, because IWAY is the only build where they have 7 party members equally able to use it, while the typical tombs build has at most 5. Additionally, since they have little healing Res Signet's health restoration getting nerfed would hit them harder than everybody else.

Mercury Angel · Feb 20, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Lower the recharge on Drain Energy and tap. I know they had to be destroyed to get people away from them completely but I think they time is right for them to come back. Its pretty sad when drain enchantment is SOOO much better and its not even an elite. Mes e denial is pretty much dead from the inspiration line. Doesn't matter if it did return a ranger is still far better at it using the domination line.

Yes, this was my complaint on Anet's heavy handed nerf policy, wherein they hurt multiple aspects of a skill or skill set all at once. They hit Energy Drain and Energy Tap on their effectiveness as energy denial AND energy management in 2 strokes. If they have to drop the energy loss even more and up the energy gain to 3 energy per point lost to get the times back to 20, it'd be usable again as energy management, which is the only reason I've ever really wanted it =\
If denying people energy was my slice of cake, I'd run Debilitating Shot.

coleslawdressin · Feb 20, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resin

Spiteful Spirit? How is that skill overpowered?

he is an iway nub

sorry just skimmed the thread

Lady Lozza · Feb 20, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by konohamaru heaven

Orders are the size of the compass.

That being the case I can't see why they would nerf them too much. The only other reasonable alternative would be "nearby allies when skill is cast" otherwise the skill will be useless. And if they are going to nerf this, they may as well nerf ward againts elements because it works the same way.

Lets Get to Healing · Feb 20, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Has anyone mentioned a major need on buffing everyones favorite elite: Peace and Harmony?

twicky_kid · Feb 20, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Res sig is naturally balanced by DP. No need to change it at all. If you can kill a target at 100-110% boost you should be able to do it again with -15 DP. Yes they res at full life but, now he is even easier to kill. Kill again now the guy is at 30. Rinse repeat. Res sigs can be used up very quickly when killing the same target over and over.

Edge is much too insane to ignore but I'm not going to complain about anything tha gets changed.

We still have not seen skills for chapter 2. The balance will be for chapter 2 so there will most likely be a lot of greifs but that's with any change.

Lets Get to Healing · Feb 20, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

lol i thought changing rez sig was a joke. . . .

Change the good old sig! NAHHH It can only be used once unless u kill a boss . . . . U guys should be punished!

Mysterial · Feb 20, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

Yes, this was my complaint on Anet's heavy handed nerf policy, wherein they hurt multiple aspects of a skill or skill set all at once. They hit Energy Drain and Energy Tap on their effectiveness as energy denial AND energy management in 2 strokes. If they have to drop the energy loss even more and up the energy gain to 3 energy per point lost to get the times back to 20, it'd be usable again as energy management, which is the only reason I've ever really wanted it =\
If denying people energy was my slice of cake, I'd run Debilitating Shot.

You don't want Energy Drain to be used as energy management for anyone not Mesmer primary, or you're going to get what we had months ago where everyone who could spare it was tacking it on because why take a normal energy management elite if you can take one that destroys the enemy's energy too? That said, it could be (carefully) buffed a little without hurting anything.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Res sig is naturally balanced by DP. No need to change it at all. If you can kill a target at 100-110% boost you should be able to do it again with -15 DP.

Sure, you can kill him again. They're also killing you. And all too often, the winner is decided by who gets off the most res sigs. This is especially prevalent in the arenas and against IWAY, but it's a general problem. When a skill is so important you have half your team or more running it, it's overpowered. They need to nerf res sig (I'd say 50% health is fine), then buff the 'hard' resurrection spells so that they're worth using.

Phades · Feb 20, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

You aren't understanding how it's being used. The reason it's overpowered on warriors is because they max out their exhaustion on it, and a) they can cast it again every 15 seconds due to exhaustion capping on 0 and Gale only requiring 5 energy, and b) if they actually need to use an energy skill, they switch to an air focus, use it, then switch back (which is why they run 9 air magic). Increasing the cost to 10 energy breaks that tactic, because they'll be forced to wait the full 30 seconds between uses.

That doesnt really matter, they can still focus swap to work around that anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

Your point is valid about warriors in general, but has little to do with IWAY. They could get the attack speed boost from other skills if they had to and they get as much health regen from Order of the Vampire as they do from IWAY. Nerfing Resurrection Signet is far more important, because IWAY is the only build where they have 7 party members equally able to use it, while the typical tombs build has at most 5. Additionally, since they have little healing Res Signet's health restoration getting nerfed would hit them harder than everybody else.

Expand the battle to include 16 or more "allies" per side. This doesn't neccacarially mean pets either. That is where it becomes a scaling issue for IWAY. Chapter 2 will have larger battles using those alliances. Having it be able to potentially be active for a few minutes per activiation is a design oversight and is imbalanced in comparison to all other IAS skills. This is also ignoring the inherent health regeneration associated with it.

Lady Lozza · Feb 20, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

IMHO P&H does not need buffing. It is fine the way it is. Players may complain that it is generally not useful in the arena but buffing every skill that isn't useful in the arena would be a LOT of work. P&H works fine in pve. If, like in the arena, you need better management than that you get a BR/BiP necro, or use OoB/MoR.

mattjones527 · Feb 20, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lets Get to Healing

Has anyone mentioned a major need on buffing everyones favorite elite: Peace and Harmony?

Its funny how every one claims P&H is so underpowered. In pve it can be very useful. With high enough DF you can easily keep P&H on yourself and another monk. With an enchanting mod and blessed aura I think it is even be possible to sustain it on yourself and two other monks. Casting it on yourself alone its not very efficent, it becomes efficent when more people benefit from it. I'm not 100% sure but ive heard the OoB is roughly equivalent to 3 pips of regen. So in a sense P&H is balanced as it is, it even encourges team play in my opinion. However I'm all for this skill being buffed It would be nice to have a good monk energy management skill.

Lady Lozza · Feb 20, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Monks typically get around 15 nrg for OoB and the skill has a recharge of 15. I don't know what the equiv. is in regen though.
With echo you could keep P&H on 3 monks. As for monks gettting decent management skills, they already have some essence bond, b. spirit, their skills cost a lot less than the skills of other professions and they do extra healing with DF. If all of the sudden a monk was able to spam heal party for the 10 minutes hoh battles took place balanace would well and truly go out the window. Players already rely a lot on only one profession when the skills already exist from others. Mo/Me, Mo/N - both these combinations give you excellent management skills. Furthermore the game is suppose to be a team effort, take out the need for a battery and all of the sudden those skills become useless.

tafy69 · Feb 20, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

They will Definately do something about Orders, I dont think it was Anets plans to have 50% of the necros in PvP to be order necros.

Builds to be nerfed :

IWAY
Ranger Spike
Surge

Skills:

Energy Surge and Burn - Make it burn half the energy for double the damage per energy gone.
IWAY - Cap the time its active for ~10-15 Seconds
Cripling Shot - Make it so it can be blocked, or a 4 second recharge or something
Distortion - 5-1 or 4-1 Energy loss

Buffs:

Eles in general
lots of underused or unused skills for all classes

These are my guesses atleast

BigTru · Feb 20, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Distortion and Orders are the only ones I see really warranting a nerf. Mabey Gale.

dargon · Feb 20, 2006, 07:17 AM // 07:17

just rememeber guys, the playing field is going to change dramatically once factions is released. So, what you think needs nerfing right now, might not be the same when factions comes out later this spring.

lishi · Feb 20, 2006, 07:22 AM // 07:22

after some though i reached this conclusion.

i dont care what they will nerf or buff.
i hope the change is big so we will see some new variety.

if something is not balaced there is always time to nerf it